Lillian Gobitas Klose & the Pledge of Allegiance in Public Schools: 5 Questions with RiShawn Biddle

Lillian Gobitas Klose & the Pledge of Allegiance in Public Schools: 5 Questions with RiShawn Biddle
X
Story Stream
recent articles

Photo courtesy RiShawn Biddle

RiShawn Biddle is well known as a provocative education writer and voice for school reform. A former editorial writer for the Indianapolis Star, he runs the Dropout Nation website and is a fixture of education conversations on Twitter.

When Lillian Gobitas Klose, the plaintiff in a landmark Supreme Court case about mandatory recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in school, passed away late last month, Biddle seemed like the right person to check in with about the issue and the significance of Klose's stand. That’s because like Klose, he was raised Jehovah's Witness and faced some of the same issues in school.

In a 1935 case that went to the Supreme Court, Klose refused to say the pledge, arguing it was an infringement on her religious liberty. The court, however, upheld the mandatory pledge and Jehovah's Witnesses became targets of political violence. A few years later the court reversed itself, a ruling that still stands.

RealClearEducation spoke with Biddle Tuesday about Klose and being Jehovah’s Witness in a public school, where the Pledge of Allegiance is a fixture of morning routines.  Here’s a lightly edited version our conversation.

What was your reaction when you heard about Lillian Gobitas Klose's death? Was she a significant figure in your life?

She wasn’t necessarily a significant figure in my life as much as that she was evocative in many ways for kids who are Christian, have a different Christian background, or people who aren’t religious, and what they go through when in public education.

Growing up in a Jehovah’s Witness community from 8 years old to about 15 years of age, it was about where I came from. You’re in school, you have all these other kids who are doing the pledge, and then there’s you: you’re the only one or one of a couple of kids because your faith says this is idolatry that you don’t do this. That makes you stand out as a kid when you want to fit in as much as you can.

As tough as my experience sometimes was, Lillian’s was a lot worse. She fought a battle that a kid at the age of 12 shouldn’t have to fight, but she fought it anyway because it was a matter of her conscience, and she fought it at a time in history where being different was not tolerated at all. That’s something I appreciate.

What was your experience, as a child of Jehovah's Witnesses, with the pledge? On Twitter you said it was hard for you?

It was more internal than external for me, but occasionally I felt the external. There were kids who would point out, “look at you, you’re different, why are you doing this, this is odd.” But luckily by that point you didn’t have teachers who were going around embarrassing you – they knew what the rules were.

I just got used to it because as a Jehovah’s Witness you’re always a little different – it’s just another thing that makes you different, so you move on. But some other kids might end up doing the pledge because they were in school. School is tough enough as it is, especially in the middle school years, just dealing with the fact that you look funny or you dress oddly or other facts of life growing up.

How did that experience affect how you look at education and liberty?

One of the reasons why school choice matters is because it’s about freedom: the freedom for people from different backgrounds to be able to go to school, get the education they need and what fits for them. Particularly for families that have strong religious leanings, one of the problems with public education is that any effort to create that sort of culture in a school that fits for your community is difficult to do.

Having those students in a public school creates an uncomfortable situation and gets in the way of learning. It also creates needless conflicts -- fighting over matters that don’t have anything to do with what matters most: which is all children should receive a high quality education that helps them succeed in the world when they get to adulthood. With choice, especially in places like the Netherlands where public schools are funded alongside catholic schools, it creates peace. You don’t have to fight over the school anymore. Choice is an important thing to have in order to create an environment of tolerance for all views, whatever those views may be.

Are you religious today? 

I’m a very religious Baptist. For me, faith is a part of my life. It’s one of the reasons why I focus on reforming public education. It’s as much a moral thing for me as much as economic.

How do you think schools are handling these issues today?

When you see arguments about school prayer, religions, Christmas, Easter, public education has not handled this well. It’s now about 50 years after the ruling ending mandatory school prayer, but we’re still fighting this stuff and fighting about it every day. We just haven’t dealt with this very well, and public education in its current structure can’t deal with it – it’s a monopoly, a government system. You have to deal with the typical pressures to serve all kids. It’s the tyranny of the majority versus the rights of the minority. We’ll have more fights with diversity, it’s one of the reasons I fight for rethinking the structure of education. We have to provide high quality education, but we do it poorly dealing with social diversity.

Comment
Show commentsHide Comments

Related Articles